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I once spent time trying to come up with a new economic system that focused on providing a good quality of life for all regardless of whether they "work." My goal was that necessary jobs would be filled by incentivizing the population to take on these roles by offering them an improved quality of life through more access to better housing, internet, services, more convenient transportation, more options for food, etc. A free rider who chooses not to work could be incentivized to contribute to necessary labor by being rewarded with different kind of vacation plans, events, and improved technology. In application I have no idea whether something like this would actually work, I believe it would likely require automating most of the means of production with 3D printed houses, automated production and transportation of food and water, along with renewable energy and resource solutions.
I think one effective way to try and keep corruption in check is to ensure a balance of power by giving many different authorities over smaller areas power, rather than the power weighing towards the larger force that lays guidelines for the small authorities, so long as the people are able to maintain their freedom to travel and obtain free housing anywhere, the population could 'vote' by choosing where they want to live. This could hopefully create a balance where if a population density is too high, opportunities and incentives become more difficult to acquire, rather than being stuck in a capitalist cog until enough money is made to escape, the population could simply spread out to other areas where there are better incentives. Any form of authority in a governmental system has the potential to become corrupted. Even if the majority of the population gets a true democratic popular vote, the populations mind can be swayed via propaganda. I think one of the important factors to ensure democracy remains successful is ensuring the population is intelligent, informed, and have been taught to be true independent thinkers.
This isn't taking into account any metaphysical properties or concepts of divine or spiritual nature, I am just beginning to understand many new things, and enjoy reading the ideas discussed on this forum while I do so. I figured I would pipe in and make my debut.

Bold of you to assume we have free will

I am glad that my reply about advertising on the site and The Oracle Forum which triggered my commentary on capitalism has given birth to an independent post topic open to a far more interesting debate. So thank you Lannix for pushing the boat into the river and your articulate comments, and thank you simple for offering some proactively sound opinion and observations. And thank you Topaz for your short but most certainly to a valuable point statement. I will reply separately, but for now one essential modification to the ideology is that it is essential to move towards a system that shares resources, which we are as a series of disunited nations NOT doing with the Covid-19 vaccines or other medicines. For example it is utterly obscene NOT to share a resource as precious as waters and make HUGE PROFITS from bottling it either in native form or as a component of soft drinks, sodas or whatever you choose to call them. Anyway, I shall expand my views later, but I have a message from Dave Denison next. My warmest regards Redbeck.

CAPITALISM A NOTE FROM Dave Denison

http://www.973-eht-namuh-973.com/Alchem ... %20837.htm

Lannix wrote: 06 Feb 2021 00:11 What system could possibly be better without also becoming corrupt?

None that we know of (yet). A system is only as good as its constituents.
Only when each and every individual will raise their consciousness,
through patient, laborious self-work, will the collective condition permanently improve.

One could argue that the current economic system cannot even be considered genuine capitalism.
Continuous bailouts in the billions for institutions and corporations deemed 'too big to fail'
is the opposite of a brutal free market.

The Marxist system has been tried one too many times with disastrous results.
One only has to only look at the horrors of the Russian revolution and resulting Soviet Union,
or the Cultural Revolution in China to see how it plays out.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" sounds nice until you realise that
needs are infinite and ability is limited.
Perhaps some form of communism (in the sense of true communities) will flourish in the distant future,
but we have a long way to go until our consciousness is ready for that.

Having said that, i am by no means blind to the dangers of capitalism.
Perhaps one of the biggest problems in dealing with capitalism,
and also an big reason why it has prevailed so successfully, is that it is so effective at incorporating
any opposition against it into itself.
For example, you want to be a Marxist?
Capitalism says:
"Great! - Here are Marx's books you can buy on Amazon with your credit card,
they will be delivered to you via a multinational courier."
You want to rebel in the way you dress and the anti-capitalist music you listen to?
Capitalism says:
"Great! Here is some punk band merch and some musical instruments you can buy in
<insert big music shop brand here>"
You want to go live off-grid?
Capitalism says:
"Great! First you will work and save up money for years to buy land through a real estate agent,
Then you will buy mass-produced tools to build your house, a car made in a factory, etc."
In all of these instances, even though you think you are fighting capitalism, you are actually
supporting it through these acts.

Žižek poses a thought-provoking question that you can ask yourself:
What is easier to imagine:
A global catastrophe that wipes out civilisation (nuclear war, comet, etc) or the end of capitalism today?

Redbeck wrote: 08 Feb 2021 16:15 One essential modification to the ideology is that it is essential to move towards a system that shares resources,
which we are as a series of disunited nations NOT doing with the Covid-19 vaccines or other medicines.

Coronavirus is a pantomime [1] that is being used for various nefarious purposes, one of which is the so-called
"Great Reset" pushed by technocrats like Klaus Schwab of WEF and his puppet-masters behind the scenes.

It is pretty clear the current economic system was/is unsustainable and would have crashed pandemic or not.
Having a convenient excuse for suddenly having bread lines again is nice though.

I consider property and ownership to be rights by natural law.
If someone worked hard and earned something, no one has the right to take that away from them.
Seeing things like this: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/ ... ange-2030/
being pushed openly is not a good sign.
They will not take what i rightfully and honestly earned from me without a fight -
not because of my love of material things, but out of principle.

If they get their way, life will not improve for humanity. That we can be sure of.

________________________________________________________________________
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

simple wrote: 06 Feb 2021 09:19 I once spent time trying to come up with a new economic system that focused on providing a good quality of life for all regardless of whether they "work." My goal was that necessary jobs would be filled by incentivizing the population to take on these roles by offering them an improved quality of life through more access to better housing, internet, services, more convenient transportation, more options for food, etc. A free rider who chooses not to work could be incentivized to contribute to necessary labor by being rewarded with different kind of vacation plans, events, and improved technology. In application I have no idea whether something like this would actually work, I believe it would likely require automating most of the means of production with 3D printed houses, automated production and transportation of food and water, along with renewable energy and resource solutions.
I think one effective way to try and keep corruption in check is to ensure a balance of power by giving many different authorities over smaller areas power, rather than the power weighing towards the larger force that lays guidelines for the small authorities, so long as the people are able to maintain their freedom to travel and obtain free housing anywhere, the population could 'vote' by choosing where they want to live. This could hopefully create a balance where if a population density is too high, opportunities and incentives become more difficult to acquire, rather than being stuck in a capitalist cog until enough money is made to escape, the population could simply spread out to other areas where there are better incentives. Any form of authority in a governmental system has the potential to become corrupted. Even if the majority of the population gets a true democratic popular vote, the populations mind can be swayed via propaganda. I think one of the important factors to ensure democracy remains successful is ensuring the population is intelligent, informed, and have been taught to be true independent thinkers.
This isn't taking into account any metaphysical properties or concepts of divine or spiritual nature, I am just beginning to understand many new things, and enjoy reading the ideas discussed on this forum while I do so. I figured I would pipe in and make my debut.

Dude just described Capitalism w/ added free housing, then went on to describe the US's Constitutional Republic like he just invented something new lmao.

As hesitant as I am to give any legitimacy to the abominable Fascist, their economic system is, at least, an interesting alternative to Capitalism, that has been adopted even in some Marxist circles.

Corporatism, stemming from the Latin word Corpus, referring to the human body, is an economic theory in which the economy is modeled after a living organism. The idea is that the economy should be divided into many organs, or guilds. Groups of trades that can coordinate with each other and the government. These groups would be designed to work together to maintain the health of the Corpus.

This idea, while mostly associated with the abominable Fascist has it's origins in Ancient Greece, with the oldest concepts drawn out by Plato and Aristotle. It has also found its place in many monarchical, socialist, and libertarian ideologies.

Individual business would be owned by the employees, with each employee having considerable shares of ownership, and would be included in the decision making process, oftentimes with no set leader. This would be dissimilar to modern "employee ownership" models such as Publix, as there would be no majority shareholders beyond people who have worked for the company the longest. Shares would, for the most part, be divided evenly between employees, and allotted again throughout your career based on seniority.

This economic model, as far as I am aware, has never been tried, and I am very interested in seeing if anyone is aware of a State that has attempted this, as well as your thoughts on the matter.

-Nazheek

the organ idea makes sense on paper, specialization exploded humanity in terms making and inventing tech. idk the more I think about this a new system how complicated it is, how it can all be still tried by corruption it seems we’re being shown the paradox of even having currency.at every step.

I think atleast a budget for food should be given to every citizen not just an allowance. Socialism is abused and glittered in gold. Foodstamps for every citizen sounds more than reasonable, but money doesn’t come from nowhere and the US budget is like a game of Jenga even when you aren’t being misled.

The issue isn’t the system it’s really in the How. Neighborhoods that could’ve been built with a sustainable farms in them or atleast a park, are instead zoned next to Walmart. Nothing is wrong with the idea of currency besides in the inarguable fact that it is a stumbling block to being a being and it’s a false path of motivation and it was designed to replace our animal instincts of hunting very specifically, what’s wrong is designing the system to have you living paycheck to paycheck and yes without doubt it was done intentionally. The slaves built the pyramid but atleast it served a purpose besides strip mall town and it will be around for a couple more years than the bubbling towns and cities.

Inflation is constructed, intentionally. That alone is kind of a weird thought. We invented something to run us and gave it infinity power in our minds. So did the Holy Roman Empire with their ideas. The fact that there’s millions in poverty rn living in those broken households that even a minute of time was robbed from families for having to worry about paying for your kid to go to school is enough to make anyone with scope sink in their stomachs coldly. On a manic perspective it’s laughable we have fucked the species and planet and spirit into a coma for something that truly is not real.

It’s hard to pin blame and too easy to blame yourself. In the end we are still lugging along the idol of economy, tripping others in the way, and giving it power. It is all our fault but when someone makes a decision to send the inflation just a little bit this way or that so they can plant more corruption for cash and in turn this sends off a ripple effect of people struggling hurting and burning for being born into a rat race with a missing foot.

In my personal opinion when someone makes a decision like that, they deserve community service and servitude until they understand the consequences of their actions. You can’t be shackling people and go when you trip into your own.


Sustainable neighborhoods, designed with farms and parks, easier said than done, coupled with universal food income, will leave more room for insurance rent etc idk I don’t like economics I’m not an expert but I know that much. I also know in a park that is big enough to be a banquet but not big enough for any predators would leave more people open to actually hunting their own food. The farm alone invites people to but I’m always considering our excess desires.

Crypto also is one of the most freeing forms of currency and because of it, it’s now the most likely candidate to chain us in the future.

Also I like the ownership idea. It would actually give someone motivation to stay where they work, with the organs idea it opens up more avenues for people doing what they might want to actually specialize in rather than eating leftovers of any job around. Ownership would give you motivation to want to respect your job too. I would bet money on it that if that ownership idea was implemented you’d never see a dirty McDonald’s bathroom again. You would also have purely only people with experience in that field handling affairs rather than random people playing monopoly.

I mean it’s all fun and games being rich beyond measure and messing with the population until you realize you are population

I’m willing to even bet in our lifetime technology will reach us to deem currency as redundant. It’s already there and here it just has to implemented but when we got guns we got food but then also bloodier wars

Capitalism in its current stage is designed to have complete control over us, the consumers. We being born into the preexisting system have never had any choice but than to partake. And it is quite good for some things, like pleasure and gratification. In contrast to Soviet Marxism, a system where the pleasure of eating a delicious meal for instance was reserved only for a group of elites, any one of us under the system of capitalism may elect to use our material wealth to purchase any thing we have enough for any carnal desire we may have.

But with every dopamine hit comes an equal withdrawal. Sure, you can be rich and have every means to every desire but will they ever take away your emptiness, your loneliness, your inability to connect with others, the void inside that grows every day, the uncertainty of the future. You can fix it with a few dollars, but only for a few minutes.

And how foolish could you be to determine this as a matter of simple politics, left and right, republican or democrat, black and white? Anyone who does this is just buying into their nefarious plan for us. They want us to hate each other, to tear each other apart, to rip our fellow men and countrymen at the seams for, you guessed it, profit.

Sitting here freezing in this state by my fireplace, as millions of my neighbors struggle not to freeze and find drinking water , I contemplate, how do we fix this mess were in? After four days of no power how have I taken for granted the basic human rights of warmth and comfort? And how many others have struggled with these issues for years, without a single second of my thought or care? Another perfect example of a humanitarian crisis brought about by greed.

How could a company ever care about you? Companies are the furthest thing from human beings, yet we praise them, worship them, pay them, let them run everything unknowingly while untold amounts of suffering occur on their behalf. We willingly let them divide us, tell us what to think, tell us what we should and should not do, while we line their pockets so their abuse can continue, only for a second more of pleasure.

We have the power to bring forth a more enlightened age. We have the audience that is fed up with the way things are. No longer can we stand divided and let their greed shove us further into the dirt. I have seen things in the past four days in my state that I never imagined I would see in my lifetime. This is highly concerning to myself and should be to others. I feel like things are only going to get worse. They hold far, far too much power. In fact, if you think about it for a second you will realize you have no power at all. And what power you do have could be shut off at any time, I mean this literally. If this doesn’t concern you, it should.

I appear to be going at this topic piecemeal, but it is only shortage of time that drives it this way, so please allow me to refer to it as a collection of ideas in the build up to a major document for change. There is as you can imagine a huge alternative system to draft. All input welcome even the occasional, “I love capitalism because,,,!” - Even though I don’t because I have spent at least many decades in its life stifling grip. Regards Redbeck
And thank you for the ready input of LessThanNothing, a brief shot from ghast 352, Nazheek, Auriorusiana and theone returned. It is gratifying to see the thoughts flooding in.

For example capitalism ensures the perpetuation of that abomination referred to as “market forces i.e. supply and demand scarcity of staple food items should not trigger a price increase such that it is beyond the means of the less fortunate. If scarcity becomes a governing factor then the crop and harvest should be set aside and the crop replenished and a substitute available provided. Overall farmers should be reclassified as public servants not profit making business owners, and the overall industry reclassified as a public service. Any affordable housing developer must provide a separate small plots of land assigned to every household for an annual peppercorn rent, with a cultivation tunnel grant, free seed (annually) and basic garden tools sufficient to grow vegetables for home supply. Without the sharecroppers take, unless it becomes the local councils share that is passed directly on to food banks. This also serves as an escape garden. Foodbanks are the result of extreme capitalism which is the point we have reached, they are the final backstop of extreme poverty and should remain part of the system ad infinitum.

Another totally unacceptable aspect of capitalism is the Covid-19 vaccine as already mentioned above. Pharmaceuticals and drug companies have been historically renowned for obscenely high profit margins. One existing vaccine manufacturer with an internationally approved product is making 80 per cent profit on each single dose, on this basis poorer countries simply cannot afford to inoculate more than a small percentage of their citizens. We are in the middle of a world heath crisis which affects us all, the virus will not stop spreading until humankind achieves a significant degree of herd immunity, vaccine is the main heavy duty treatment in the spread of this coronavirus immunity therefore it must be sold at the cost of production, storage and shipment. Most importantly the fiercely protected formula should be shared openly, so that it can be reproduced by local pharmaceutical production facilities across the world to reduce the distributed cost even further.